Bulletins


BulletinBulletin dateReplacement BulletinItem no.SummaryAdded
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
04160111/14/20050522810018745Wds cop kit diagnostic tip - coil on plug (cop) ignition systems - engine misfire or rough running. *tt01/12/2006
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - COOLING SYSTEM - RADIATOR ASSEMBLY
1692106/01/200310002632Coolant leak due to broken radiator hose clamp. 1999-2003 models. *tt09/09/2003
1662102/01/200310002500Loose radiator hose clamps. *tt09/03/2003
1659702/01/200310002486Coolant leak due to a broken lower radiator hose clamp. *tt09/03/2003
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE
TSB-09-15-612/09/200910030848Ford: some vehicles equipped with the 6.0l engine may experience a p006a, p132, p0401 or p0402 diagnostic trouble code (dtc) with a lack of power condition, surge, or turbocharger flutter after performing field service action (fsa) 06e17,12/09/2009
0721210/01/200710023943Some 1997-2008 vehicles equipped with a 4.6l 2v, 5.4l 2v, or 6.8l 2v engine--spark plug thread repair procedure--not covered under new vehicle limited warranty. *nj this includes f-53 motorhome chassis. updated 2/23/10. *pe02/20/2008
03140408/23/20040416110011162Engine misfire or running - coil on plug (cop) ignition systems - wds cop kit diagnostic tips. to include various 2005 models. * ar this article 04161 supersedes tsb 03-14-04.01/06/2005
049205/17/200410008548Water-in-fuel lamp illuminated after draining heated fuel conditioning module (hfcm) on vehicles built prior to 11/1/2003 with 6.0l engine. *tt08/04/2004
03201210/13/200310004895Rough/rolling idle when the engine is warm and/or white smoke after hot restart; lacks power after initial start-up; cold idle kicker performance at warm ambient temps; u0306 codes after reprogramming; p2263 code set during extended idle; f01/14/2004
03215110/18/20040420210004862Some 7.3l diesel turbocharger pedestals may leak oil around the exhaust back pressure actuator (ebp). *tt this article supersedes tsb 03-21-51 dated 10/30/2003. *tt01/12/2004
1682105/01/200310002756Air induction systems housing may appear to be warped and/or not sealing. *tt09/16/2003
1677404/01/200310002659Low power condition. variable geometry turbocharger - service solenoid. *tt09/10/2003
03070804/01/200310002679Diluted oil, runs rough and/or low power. *tt09/10/2003
1688406/01/200310002601Moan/drone noise and tactile vibration between 1500-2000 rpm due to turbocharger mounting components resonating at the engine firing frequency. *tt09/08/2003
1687406/01/200310002594Rough/rolling (surging) engine speed, at idle only, when the engine is at normal operating temperatures. the surging may often occur following a restart after a hot soak. this condition may clear up with a throttle tip in. engineering is09/08/2003
1660702/01/200310002492Rough idle, rolling idle, poor idle return, lacks power, injector fault codes, or increased exhaust smoke. *tt09/03/2003
1660902/01/200310002494Low power condition and/or diagnostic trouble code (dtc) p2263 (turbo/super charger system performance). engineering is investigating. *tt09/03/2003
1667003/01/200310001931Rough rolling idle, poor idle return, low power, injector fault codes, or increased smoke caused by possible bad icp sensor. *tt *jb07/28/2003
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - DIESEL
TSB-08-26-306/01/200910028826Ford: some vehicles with diesel engines may experience no starts, hard starts or rough running when cold and may be accompanied with diagnostic trouble codes (dtcs) p0611, p1378 and/or all 8 injector circuit codes. *pe06/01/2009
TSB-08-23-803/04/200910028125Ford: vehicles may exhibit fuel in the engine coolant, due to leaks in the cylinder head fuel injector area. symptoms may include fuel in engine coolant and coolant expulsion from the degas bottle. *pe updated 3/20/09.03/04/2009
CSP-48B0105/26/2008CSP-08B02-48B0110026321Ford: vehicles mistakenly charged $100 powertrain warranty deductible for fuel injector repair or repairs. no model or model years provided. *pe econoline, excursion and f-series super duty vehicles, model years 2002-2005. updated10/17/2008
0513501/01/200510016846Oil leak or boost pressure leak at hot side charge air cooler (cac) duct-6.0l diesel engine. *sc10/12/2005
0319209/29/200303141010004032Leak oil around the exhaust backpressure actuator (ebp) - 7.3l diesel turbocharger pedestals. *tt11/14/2003
0314605/17/2004049310003746Engine oil diluted with fuel, runs rough and/or a low power condition. *tt10/29/2003
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - GASOLINE - TURBO-CHARGER
TSB-08-16-1305/01/200910028730Ford: some vehicles equipped with 6.0l diesel engine may exhibit any one or combination of the following concerns-lack of power, white/black smoke or a surge. *pe05/20/2009
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - OTHER FUEL TYPES - TURBO-CHARGER
TSB-08-16-1305/01/200910028730Ford: some vehicles equipped with 6.0l diesel engine may exhibit any one or combination of the following concerns-lack of power, white/black smoke or a surge. *pe05/20/2009
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - EXHAUST SYSTEM
TSB-09-15-612/09/200910030848Ford: some vehicles equipped with the 6.0l engine may experience a p006a, p132, p0401 or p0402 diagnostic trouble code (dtc) with a lack of power condition, surge, or turbocharger flutter after performing field service action (fsa) 06e17,12/09/2009
049405/17/200410008549Turbo-induced exhaust moan/drone at 1600-1800 rpm on 6.0l built prior to 9/29/2003. *tt08/04/2004
1777405/01/200410008551Exhaust leak noise. *tt08/04/2004
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - EXHAUST SYSTEM - EMISSION CONTROL - GAS RECIRCULATION VALVE (EGR VALVE)
0541703/07/200510014666Intermittent rough idle - non-commanded egr (exhaust gas recirculation valve) flow. *tt05/05/2005
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - EXHAUST SYSTEM - MANIFOLD/HEADER/MUFFLER/TAIL PIPE
055403/21/200510014685Use of stainless steel exhaust studs in service for 5.4l 2v engine. *tt05/05/2005

Investigations


NHTSA IDManufacturerDate openDate closeSubjectRecall campaign
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
EA06012FORD MOTOR COMPANY06/22/200612/07/2007ENGINE STALLING07V553000
 In a december 3, 2007 letter, ford advised nhtsa that it will conduct a safety recall to replace the cam position sensor (cps) in approximately 1.2 million subject vehicles to address reports of engine stalling.a new design cps with improved performance and durability will be installed as a remedy.owner notifications will begin in december 2007. the subject vehicles are durable, full-sized, medium duty trucks commonly used for commercial purposes, rescue/emergency response, and commercial or recreational towing.cps failure is comparable to unexpectedly turning the key off since the signal it produces is vital to the electronic engine control system.cps signal loss terminates fuel injection resulting in an engine stall.once stalled, the engine may restart right away, or may restart after a delay (typically 5 to 10 minutes), or may not restart at all.in addition to exposing the driver and other motorists to crash risk due to loss of motive power or vehicle disablement, engine stalling also effects the power assisted steering and braking. through consumer interviews, odi determined that cps failures occurred without any form of warning, at any vehicle speed (50% at highway speeds), and under any driving condition, such as accelerating.consumers reported that about a third of the vehicles failed to restart, with another third reporting delayed restarting.half the vehicles that did restart experienced another stall on the same or a subsequent drive cycle (before cps replacement) re-exposing those consumers to the risks associated with a stalling event.in their voq reports, half of the odi complainants described difficulty controlling the vehicle due to lose of power assist systems, especially those who were towing at the time of the incident. the one alleged injury incident occurred in an intersection when a subject vehicle stalled while turning across oncoming lanes of traffic.although unsubstantiated, the complainant alleged an injury to a child occupant during odi's interview.the other crash allegations mostly involved low speed, loss of control incidents often caused by lack of power assist; no injuries are reported in these incidents, and property damage, if any, was minimal.consumers also reported other incidents with significant safety risks, such as disablement in a lane or on a shoulder of a high-speed roadway or interstate, or extended disablement in remote areas during severe weather conditions. the population above is ford's estimate of the 1.4 million subject vehicles produced that are currently registered.the ford complaint and warranty counts noted above are current as of ford's last submission dated june 21, 2007; they do not include f-450, f-550, or econoline counts as these products were not formally within scope of the investigation when failure information was requested.warranty data analysis indicates that about half the claims involved a stall while driving event ( ford's assessment) and that poor cps durability was a longstanding concern.ford reported that the new cps design should meet or exceed their 10 year, 150k mile life expectancy design requirement.
EA05003FORD MOTOR COMPANY02/15/200511/02/2005ENGINE STALLING05V270000
 In a june 7, 2005 letter, ford notified odi that it would be conducting a safety recall of approximately 180,000 ford f-super duty, excursion and e-series vehicles equipped with 6.0l diesel engines to correct two wiring related conditions that could result in engine stall (nhtsa recall no. 05v-270, ford no. 05s34).the affected vehicles were built between september 29, 2003 and may 31, 2004.according to ford, vehicles with the conditions may stall without warning and may or may not restart.ford will instruct owners of vehicles included in the recall to take their vehicles to a dealer to have the fuel injector control module wire harness upgraded or replaced and or have a new injection control pressure sensor connector installed.during a may 2005 presentation to odi, ford identified a number of potential failure mechanisms that could affect engine performance in various segments of the subject vehicle population, including the wiring conditions addressed by 05v-270.the wiring conditions, which both affect engine fueling, were the most likely conditions to result in engine stall.the recalled vehicles comprise approximately 43% of the subject vehicle population and account for 75 of the 113 odi reports that have a valid vin (66%).the voq complaint rate for the recall population is 45/100k while the rate for vehicles outside the recall population is 17/100k and their trend (by date of receipt) is declining.based on the analysis, odi believes ford
DP05005FORD MOTOR COMPANY09/22/200501/04/2006SPARK PLUG EJECTION FROM CYLINDER HEAD
 On september 6, 2005, odi received a petition requesting that the agency investigate allegations of engine spark plug ejection in certain model year 1997 through 2004 ford vehicles with triton v-8 and v-10 engines.odi received a total of 474 non-duplicative complaints on the subject vehicles where the complainant, or the dealer repairing the vehicle, reported that a spark plug detached from the cylinder and/or ejected from the engine.as of december 8, 2005, odi is not aware of any allegations where the alleged defect resulted in a loss of vehicle control, a crash, an injury, or a fatality in any of the 10,319,810 subject vehicles.in addition, odi is aware of only two incidents where the vehicle stalled without restart.information contained in the odi consumer complaints and obtained from 72 telephone interviews with complainants showed the following:(1) 99% of the complaints were on my 1997 to 2002 subject vehicles.(2) most the complainants reported hearing a loud pop while driving or upon starting up the vehicle followed by a loud, repetitive clicking or popping sound.(3) many of the complainants reported that the popping sound was accompanied by some loss of vehicle power; however, in 99% of the incidents reported, the vehicle did not stall.in the very few incidents where the vehicle did stall, most vehicles could be restarted.(4) only a small percentage of the complainants cited that they smelled gas or a slight burning smell when the incident occurred.(5) in all but a very few incidents, vehicle damage was limited to the engine.in one incident, the complaint reported that the fuel rail was damaged and replaced after one of the spark plugs ejected from the engine; however, the complainant reported that the damage did not result in any type of fuel leak or fire.in another incident, the only incident where a fire was alleged, the complainant reported that no fluid leak was observed, but that a fire resulted after the spark plug had ejected from the engine and he had restarted the vehicle and driven to another location.none of the complainants reported any damage to the vehicle hood.(6) only two complainants reported that they observed what appeared to be some drops of fuel coming from the cylinder where the spark plug had failed or on the spark plug itself; however, each of these complainants reported that there was no smoke or flames as a result of his incident.as the petitioner noted, and odi
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE
DP05005FORD MOTOR COMPANY09/22/200501/04/2006SPARK PLUG EJECTION FROM CYLINDER HEAD
 On september 6, 2005, odi received a petition requesting that the agency investigate allegations of engine spark plug ejection in certain model year 1997 through 2004 ford vehicles with triton v-8 and v-10 engines.odi received a total of 474 non-duplicative complaints on the subject vehicles where the complainant, or the dealer repairing the vehicle, reported that a spark plug detached from the cylinder and/or ejected from the engine.as of december 8, 2005, odi is not aware of any allegations where the alleged defect resulted in a loss of vehicle control, a crash, an injury, or a fatality in any of the 10,319,810 subject vehicles.in addition, odi is aware of only two incidents where the vehicle stalled without restart.information contained in the odi consumer complaints and obtained from 72 telephone interviews with complainants showed the following:(1) 99% of the complaints were on my 1997 to 2002 subject vehicles.(2) most the complainants reported hearing a loud pop while driving or upon starting up the vehicle followed by a loud, repetitive clicking or popping sound.(3) many of the complainants reported that the popping sound was accompanied by some loss of vehicle power; however, in 99% of the incidents reported, the vehicle did not stall.in the very few incidents where the vehicle did stall, most vehicles could be restarted.(4) only a small percentage of the complainants cited that they smelled gas or a slight burning smell when the incident occurred.(5) in all but a very few incidents, vehicle damage was limited to the engine.in one incident, the complaint reported that the fuel rail was damaged and replaced after one of the spark plugs ejected from the engine; however, the complainant reported that the damage did not result in any type of fuel leak or fire.in another incident, the only incident where a fire was alleged, the complainant reported that no fluid leak was observed, but that a fire resulted after the spark plug had ejected from the engine and he had restarted the vehicle and driven to another location.none of the complainants reported any damage to the vehicle hood.(6) only two complainants reported that they observed what appeared to be some drops of fuel coming from the cylinder where the spark plug had failed or on the spark plug itself; however, each of these complainants reported that there was no smoke or flames as a result of his incident.as the petitioner noted, and odi
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - DIESEL
PE04070FORD MOTOR COMPANY10/07/200402/15/2005ENGINE STALLING
 Twenty five of the odi failure reports are duplicative of ford complaints.twenty odi reports do not contain a vin (and may or may not be duplicative of ford reports).the 14 alleged crashes and 2 alleged injuries were all minor.submitted during preliminary evaluation (pe) 04-070, ford's response to odi's information request (ir) letter contained about 5,000 consumer reports (mors) and 8,700 field reports (cqis).ford reviewed the complaints and categorized them.the manufacturer reports shown above represent a count of unique vehicles that ford categorized as allegedly stalling due to a subject engine component ('a' category, see ford's ir response letter for further detail); some of these vehicles received multiple reports.odi has not yet confirmed ford's categorization of these reports, nor has odi confirmed ford's categorization of the remaining reports (which ford states do not pertain to the alleged defect).ford submitted nearly 19,000 warranty claims, many of which involved claims for a technical service bulletin (tsb 04-13-08) and field service action (fsa 03b05) which ford identified as potential remedies for stalling complaints.odi has not confirmed that either of these are a remedy for engine stalling complaints.several other dealer communications related to engine stall were also submitted as well as over 50 product modifications, 15 of which involve revisions to the software for the electronic engine control unit.further investigation is required and odi is upgrading pe04-070 to an engineering analysis (ea).during the ea, odi will establish and update manufacturer failure report counts, further investigate the frequency and trend of stalling complaints, and determine the scope and safety implication of stalling events.odi will also investigate ford's remedies, their effectiveness, and whether further action is required.
EA06012FORD MOTOR COMPANY06/22/200612/07/2007ENGINE STALLING07V553000
 In a december 3, 2007 letter, ford advised nhtsa that it will conduct a safety recall to replace the cam position sensor (cps) in approximately 1.2 million subject vehicles to address reports of engine stalling.a new design cps with improved performance and durability will be installed as a remedy.owner notifications will begin in december 2007. the subject vehicles are durable, full-sized, medium duty trucks commonly used for commercial purposes, rescue/emergency response, and commercial or recreational towing.cps failure is comparable to unexpectedly turning the key off since the signal it produces is vital to the electronic engine control system.cps signal loss terminates fuel injection resulting in an engine stall.once stalled, the engine may restart right away, or may restart after a delay (typically 5 to 10 minutes), or may not restart at all.in addition to exposing the driver and other motorists to crash risk due to loss of motive power or vehicle disablement, engine stalling also effects the power assisted steering and braking. through consumer interviews, odi determined that cps failures occurred without any form of warning, at any vehicle speed (50% at highway speeds), and under any driving condition, such as accelerating.consumers reported that about a third of the vehicles failed to restart, with another third reporting delayed restarting.half the vehicles that did restart experienced another stall on the same or a subsequent drive cycle (before cps replacement) re-exposing those consumers to the risks associated with a stalling event.in their voq reports, half of the odi complainants described difficulty controlling the vehicle due to lose of power assist systems, especially those who were towing at the time of the incident. the one alleged injury incident occurred in an intersection when a subject vehicle stalled while turning across oncoming lanes of traffic.although unsubstantiated, the complainant alleged an injury to a child occupant during odi's interview.the other crash allegations mostly involved low speed, loss of control incidents often caused by lack of power assist; no injuries are reported in these incidents, and property damage, if any, was minimal.consumers also reported other incidents with significant safety risks, such as disablement in a lane or on a shoulder of a high-speed roadway or interstate, or extended disablement in remote areas during severe weather conditions. the population above is ford's estimate of the 1.4 million subject vehicles produced that are currently registered.the ford complaint and warranty counts noted above are current as of ford's last submission dated june 21, 2007; they do not include f-450, f-550, or econoline counts as these products were not formally within scope of the investigation when failure information was requested.warranty data analysis indicates that about half the claims involved a stall while driving event ( ford's assessment) and that poor cps durability was a longstanding concern.ford reported that the new cps design should meet or exceed their 10 year, 150k mile life expectancy design requirement.
EA05003FORD MOTOR COMPANY02/15/200511/02/2005ENGINE STALLING05V270000
 In a june 7, 2005 letter, ford notified odi that it would be conducting a safety recall of approximately 180,000 ford f-super duty, excursion and e-series vehicles equipped with 6.0l diesel engines to correct two wiring related conditions that could result in engine stall (nhtsa recall no. 05v-270, ford no. 05s34).the affected vehicles were built between september 29, 2003 and may 31, 2004.according to ford, vehicles with the conditions may stall without warning and may or may not restart.ford will instruct owners of vehicles included in the recall to take their vehicles to a dealer to have the fuel injector control module wire harness upgraded or replaced and or have a new injection control pressure sensor connector installed.during a may 2005 presentation to odi, ford identified a number of potential failure mechanisms that could affect engine performance in various segments of the subject vehicle population, including the wiring conditions addressed by 05v-270.the wiring conditions, which both affect engine fueling, were the most likely conditions to result in engine stall.the recalled vehicles comprise approximately 43% of the subject vehicle population and account for 75 of the 113 odi reports that have a valid vin (66%).the voq complaint rate for the recall population is 45/100k while the rate for vehicles outside the recall population is 17/100k and their trend (by date of receipt) is declining.based on the analysis, odi believes ford
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - GASOLINE
DP05005FORD MOTOR COMPANY09/22/200501/04/2006SPARK PLUG EJECTION FROM CYLINDER HEAD
 On september 6, 2005, odi received a petition requesting that the agency investigate allegations of engine spark plug ejection in certain model year 1997 through 2004 ford vehicles with triton v-8 and v-10 engines.odi received a total of 474 non-duplicative complaints on the subject vehicles where the complainant, or the dealer repairing the vehicle, reported that a spark plug detached from the cylinder and/or ejected from the engine.as of december 8, 2005, odi is not aware of any allegations where the alleged defect resulted in a loss of vehicle control, a crash, an injury, or a fatality in any of the 10,319,810 subject vehicles.in addition, odi is aware of only two incidents where the vehicle stalled without restart.information contained in the odi consumer complaints and obtained from 72 telephone interviews with complainants showed the following:(1) 99% of the complaints were on my 1997 to 2002 subject vehicles.(2) most the complainants reported hearing a loud pop while driving or upon starting up the vehicle followed by a loud, repetitive clicking or popping sound.(3) many of the complainants reported that the popping sound was accompanied by some loss of vehicle power; however, in 99% of the incidents reported, the vehicle did not stall.in the very few incidents where the vehicle did stall, most vehicles could be restarted.(4) only a small percentage of the complainants cited that they smelled gas or a slight burning smell when the incident occurred.(5) in all but a very few incidents, vehicle damage was limited to the engine.in one incident, the complaint reported that the fuel rail was damaged and replaced after one of the spark plugs ejected from the engine; however, the complainant reported that the damage did not result in any type of fuel leak or fire.in another incident, the only incident where a fire was alleged, the complainant reported that no fluid leak was observed, but that a fire resulted after the spark plug had ejected from the engine and he had restarted the vehicle and driven to another location.none of the complainants reported any damage to the vehicle hood.(6) only two complainants reported that they observed what appeared to be some drops of fuel coming from the cylinder where the spark plug had failed or on the spark plug itself; however, each of these complainants reported that there was no smoke or flames as a result of his incident.as the petitioner noted, and odi

Consumer Complaints


Fail datemilesoccurencesPurchase date
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
06/01/2008149142
 We have had 4 spark plugs blow on the motor in 4 years and twice just this yeasr of 2011. leaving us stranded twice, once 1/2 mile from home so we drove home, and once in wyoming(1,101 miles away from home, at 46 below zero so we had to unplug the fuel injector so we could get to help on x-mas day after we had driving to my dads funeral already for 14 hours trying to get there, we still had 9 more to go and it was 5:30 a.m. but now we could not drive over 50 miles per hour for fear of what may happen. snow storm and holiday nothing open..... sometimes you have no choice of what is safe and what is the smart thing to do, we had to keep moving do to the snow storm and the cold. this was the second time we have had to deal with the spark plugs..... if this is such a dangerous thing to have happen on a ford vechile why is it not been reaclled at all??????????????? i am so discusted with ford now becasue it just happen again today but it was finally here close to home and we were not left 110-1,000 miles from home for once.........but now we are left with either another expensive reapir and possibly unfixable, (this may be a reblow and if it is non fixable) or out a trauck and in our business, and where we live we have to have a heavy duty truck. this one was bought brand new , paid off 2 years early, fully insured, mainteance done faithfully and this is what you get.
07/08/2005210/10/2003
 On 7/8/05 as my wife was backing out of the driveway, my ford f250 deisel lariet stalled. she turned the ignition off then tried to start it. the light indicating the glow plugs had warmed up sufficiently would not go off so she turned off the ignition key and turned it back on. this time the glow plug light indicator went off and the engine started fine, however, the engine acted like it did not want to change gears. she drove it slowly for a block then decided to bring it back to say it wasn't working properly but when she got back it seemed to work okay. she turned it back around and it worked fine. as she had turned and was driving down around a corner, the engine suddenly stalled. with difficulty she pulled onto the shoulder of the road, put it in park and turned the ignition off. again she had to go through the process of turning off the ignition twice to get the glow plug indicator to go off. this time the engine clunked really loud and black clouds of smoke came out of the exhaust. she tuned off the engine and tried again with the same result. the vehicle was towed to cal worthington ford dealership for repair. as of today, 7/14/05 it is still there and they say they do not know what is wrong with it. we are getting the story there is nothing wrong with it.they iformed us that both batteries were dead and they could not get into the pick up. the service tech had to go in through the passender side of the vehicle. the batteries were fine when the tow truck dropped it off at the dealership. we were there. when asked why the batteries were dead they said because they were not charging. when asked why they were not charging the answer we got from ondrey was, if you change one battery and one is bad it will drain the other battery. we informed him that we did not change any batteries. he evaded our questions and said he could not tell us anything. the technicians were looking at it.
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE
05/19/20081
 While driving my 2003 ford f250 p-up w/ 5.4l engine, i heard a loud pop and suddenly my truck will hardly go and it catches fire. i was informed it was a spark plug that blew out, which i had never changed. ford says they will not fix it, and other people want $2000 to fix it. i have since heard that this is a normal problem with these engine. i have 5 kids and now only 1 vehicle, cause i do not have the $2000 to fix a problem that ford created. *tr
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING - ENGINE - DIESEL
10/08/20037
 A brand new ford f-250 diesel, has occurrences of its accelerator not responding. which almost caused an accident while trying to turn at an intersection. *la